Tag: orogrande

Vanished: A Friend’s Lonely Search For The Truth-S1 35

27-year-old television producer Terrence Woods went missing on October 5, 2018.  He was working with a production crew that was filming a television series in mountainous central Idaho.  Reportedly he ran down a steep embankment in the Idaho wilderness never to be seen again. Television director Rochelle Newman is a friend and colleague of Terrence Woods in the UK.  She joins Crime Redefined to discuss the daunting and surprisingly lonely task of keeping the search for Terrence going.  https://www.gofundme.com/f/2hqmj-find-my-missing-son-terrence-woods

Vanished-A Friend’s Lonely Search For The Truth-Transcript (download PDF)




[00:00:00] Announcer: Welcome to the Crime Redefined Podcast produced by Zero Cliff Media coming to you from the US Bank Tower high above downtown Los Angeles. In our podcast, we drill deep into forensics and criminal investigation from the viewpoint of the defense, as well as explore the intersection of the media and the justice system.

[00:00:21] Dion Mitchell: I’m Dion Mitchell here, once again with my cohost, Mehul Anjaria. We hope all you listeners are doing well and enjoying Crime Redefined. Today, we are going to continue our series on the 2018 disappearance of Terrence Woods.

[00:00:35] Mehul Anjaria: Well, Dion, as this series continues, and the more we learn about this, just the more it boggles the mind as to why Terrence’s story hasn’t received more attention. I mean, as we’ve hit over the head a million times, if there was even some basic investigation, not to say that would was solve it but at the minimum, I mean, my gosh, at least you could eliminate some of the possible scenarios, what may have happened to Terrence, you know, right now, there’s so many possible options, you know, you and I even talk about it all the time. So right now, I mean, all we can do is, for our part is to keep the spotlight on this and so, you know, our request of our listeners and our social media followers, you know, please help spread the word so that as many people as possible can hear this, and hopefully one or more of those people have some great info for Terrence’s family.

[00:01:31] Dion Mitchell: You know, I hate to go, you know, off the rails right off the track but here’s one thing that’s, you can see how conspiracy theories can get started really, really easily, because there’s the basic things in this particular case that weren’t done, or at least as far as we know, weren’t done and so you start asking the question, why, you know, why weren’t these basic, you know, protocols or investigation tools utilized? And then there, it starts to, you know, kind of mount up, man, what, are they hiding? And there could be nothing wrong, they could have done everything great but you can see how this can gain traction.

[00:02:05] Mehul Anjaria: Yeah, you definitely can and I would just say that, as bizarre and scary as the lack of investigation is, I mean, take a look at criminal case investigation, you know, more so old ones that you look at from the cold case or post- conviction that will shock you but even today, I mean, what we think should happen just doesn’t always happen.

[00:02:27] Dion Mitchell: Well, to continue on with our I guess our investigation, we have the pleasure of speaking with Rochelle Newman, who became friends with Terrence in the UK, along with Terrence Woods Senior she has basically headed up an international missing persons campaign.

[00:02:42] Mehul Anjaria: If you happened to see the Dr. Phil episode on Terrence’s disappearance, you’re familiar with Rochelle. She’s also done some excellent work, keeping Terrance’s story alive on social media but as you’ll soon find out, after we talk with her a bit, this whole saga, Dion has really taken quite a bit of a toll on her.

[00:03:02] Dion Mitchell: It sure has, and there’s a real darkness surrounding Terrence’s disappearance and lackluster investigation thereof the show will take us through some of the key issues that have made this missing person case particularly challenging.

[00:03:16] Mehul Anjaria: Yeah, and it’s kind of like a two-person team investigating it. I mean, it seems like Terrence Sr., and Rochelle are the only people who are, you know, really actively pursuing answers, to the extent possible, because things have went cold, people aren’t talking. It’s just sad that we’re now approaching the three year anniversary and you know, these clues are getting colder and colder but, you know, another part of us doing this series, is to talk to people close to Terrence, and we want to put out there, you know, what is the true essence of Terrence, not just what are the hot takes about him, or the loose suggestions that maybe he’s somehow to blame for this or he had mental issues, or any of that. So hopefully, we’re we’re bringing some balance to the story.

[00:04:07] Dion Mitchell: No doubt and when there is limited coverage of a story, it is very, very hard for it to be balanced. I hope we are doing at least some small part to balance it out. As a bit of a tease today’s interview, Rochelle has some new information to share. Let’s see what our take on Terrence himself in the events leading up to his disappearance are.

[00:04:29] Mehul Anjaria: Rochelle, thank you so much for joining us on Crime Redefined today.

[00:04:33] Rochelle Newman: Hi. Hi. Thank you for having me.

[00:04:35] Mehul Anjaria: Great. We’re really looking forward to learning more about Terrence Woods and what can be done to help find him.

[00:04:41] Rochelle Newman: Yes, yes, because it needs to happen now.

[00:04:45] Dion Mitchell: So listen, are you ready to dive in?

[00:04:47] Rochelle Newman: Yeah, I’m ready.

[00:04:48] Dion Mitchell: Okay, so first, let’s start with you. Tell us about what you do for a career.

[00:04:56] Rochelle Newman: At the moment I’m a TV director but for the last five years I’ve been working in true crime. So I’ve been helping I’ve done over 60 murders in the UK and US. I studied criminology and sociology and I’ve always been interested in why people do certain things and the why we act the way we do sometimes. So, yeah, I’ve been doing crime, I’ve come out of crime now since Terrence’s case last year, so since the Black Lives Matter, movement, and all of these things happened, I decided to come out of crime. Because it just got too much it got too overwhelming. I went from helping victims’ family members to become in a victim’s family member. So I found that very difficult. So I decided just to move into children’s TV for a while.

[00:05:42] Dion Mitchell: I could see that but it sounds like you’re one of us.

[00:05:44] Rochelle Newman: Yeah, it does. I am but it’s so difficult. I think in I’ve done the whole international campaign, literally kind of by myself with a few other people but everyone’s so scared to speak up. So I’ve literally put my life and put my career on the line to make sure that Terrence’s story stays relevant that we find out what happens to Terrence and to ensure that it never happens to one of us ever again.

[00:06:11] Dion Mitchell: Absolutely. Just got to go from there. How did you first meet Terrence?

[00:06:16] Rochelle Newman: So this is what is very interesting. We both went, we both started out on a TV production scheme. So Terrence was in the year below me and we met at an event.

[00:06:28] Dion Mitchell: Could you back up for a second a TV production-what?

[00:06:30] Rochelle Newman: A scheme. So it’s a scheme that helps young people get into the TV industry. So that’s where we met Terrence was in the year below me and we met at a couple events and we went out a couple of times, all of us together as young people starting off in the TV industry and that’s how, yeah, that’s how we met.

[00:06:50] Mehul Anjaria: Well, so Rochelle, how is it that you first found out that Terence was missing?

[00:06:56] Rochelle Newman: So his Auntie actually was contacting everyone on Facebook saying that Terrence was missing? And also what do you mean Terrence is missing, and she’s a slight, she’s sending us all of this information, these articles and that’s how I found out and that night, I started sending out an email, I’ve never written a press release, release in my life, before Terrence’s story. I was just writing like a crazy woman put a picture of him there put some information about what happened and I sent this out to loads of journalists in the UK, and in the US, and no one got back to me, apart from a journalist who worked for The Guardian and he forwarded it on to another journalist who lived near Idaho, like an hour away from Idaho and I can’t remember his name right now but he said he would be able to help and he spoke to Terrence’s mom and he did nothing after that, because news moves on and that was it.

[00:07:50] Mehul Anjaria: Well, there’s something I have to follow up on and we’ll probably talk about this later on in the interview but you kind of dropped the bomb and you said that you were concerned about your life as you were covering the story. Can you go into a little bit about that about what exactly happened?

[00:08:06] Rochelle Newman: I’m still concerned about my life. I’m still concerned about my life, even till this day. So Terrence has gone missing. He went missing in Idaho, which is obviously a very strange, unusual place. I live in England and I’m a small black woman who’s trying to who’s running an international missing persons campaign and who is black. Yes, do you know what I mean, I’m black. People are going to try and get me and I just know that Discovery Channel, and Raw have a lot of money announcing this on the podcast is going to go out there anyways. They’ve got a lot of money, they can do what they want and I know how it goes, this world is not nice. There’s a lot of horrible people out there and when people have a lot of money, they can do certain things.

[00:08:56] Dion Mitchell: Was there anything specific that you know, through social media that that popped up that made you to be really concerned?

[00:09:01] Rochelle Newman: Um, yes, someone was messaging me asking how long I was on the Dr. Phil show for, random person and people just asking a lot of weird questions and because I started talking to some of the private investigators who weren’t really private investigators about the case. So they obviously found out my name from Dr. Phil when all these articles and so it got to a point was just like I need to kind of step back from this a bit, but my name is already out there. So we just run with it.

[00:09:34] Dion Mitchell: You know, prior to Terrence’s disappearance did you know his father?

[00:09:40] Rochelle Newman: Um, no, no, no.

[00:09:41] Dion Mitchell: So you never talked to him or anything like that?

[00:09:45] Rochelle Newman: I never talked to him, I talked to Mr. T. I call him Mr. T. Because I find it we’re saying Terrence. I talked to Mr. T probably every other day or once a week depending on how busy I am, never.

[00:09:52] Dion Mitchell: So you’re working with him right now. That was my next question. How have you been working with him keeping the story alive. So you guys are in pretty good contact?

[00:10:01] Rochelle Newman: Yeah. All the time. I’m probably the only one that keeps in contact with him all the time and Terence had closer friends in the UK and US and people, I understand that people are scared and all of these things, but there’s a missing person regardless of if he’s a man or a woman, black, white, or Asian, he’s missing. He’s missing full stop but people have just gone on with their normal lives, having kids getting married, all of these things and I’m just like, how can you not say nothing, not continue to put his name out there? Even if it’s a tweet every now and then or something to find out if Mr. Woods is okay, message him find out if I’m okay, message me anything but no, people are just -Okay Terrence has gone missing let’s go on, and I understand that it’s hard for people to understand that he’s gone missing but you need to have a bit of a backbone when it comes to things like this. So that’s my problem with everyone.

[00:10:55] Mehul Anjaria: In terms of publicity, would you say that the Dr. Phil show was was the thing that shone the biggest spotlight on the issue.

[00:11:05] Rochelle Newman: The thing is with the Dr. Phil show is that it showed the biggest spotlight on Terrence’s disappearance and that was the biggest we were gonna get. We realized at the time, because we did have other shows, contacting us looking at my social media, people all over my story messaging me here and there. It got so overwhelming last year, but they weren’t as big as Dr. Phil and I knew that it would have been difficult for us to get on Dr. Phil, because it took two, three months for them to do all the law, all of the go over all of the paperwork because of Discovery Channel and Raw. So we recorded that episode two to three months before it actually went out. Because there were issues there were legal issues but they stuck with it, even though it didn’t come out the best as it could have come out. They stuck with it and they still put it out and from that I have had people contact me about the show and about seeing Terrance in Idaho, not where people assume that he was last seen but a lady did contact me who had seen him in the store apparently does not know what the name of the store is, but she saw him in a store and all of this information. So much. This lady saw him in a store and he was acting very like he needed to get stuff now, sandwiches and everything as you do when your production assistant, then you don’t have time to get anything because no one gives you time. Everyone’s in a hurry when you’re on production. So she was just saying he said he was just in a hurry and he needed to get whatever sandwiches and fruits he needed to get it now

Dion Mitchell: and this was during production?

Rochelle Newman: This was during the production before they say he went to the Penman mines, allegedly.

[00:12:44] Dion Mitchell: Okay and then I just want to make sure, it’s clear that you haven’t had anybody message you or get in contact with you that have seen him post the post missing. This was all during that production correct?

[00:12:57] Rochelle Newman: This is only before so before Yeah, during the production, but before the fifth of October.

[00:13:04] Dion Mitchell: Okay, and this was actually in Idaho.

[00:13:07] Rochelle Newman: This was in Idaho, a lady said she saw him. She served him at the store and what she did say to me whether she’s telling the truth, or not all she said is Rochelle, someone’s hiding something. I don’t know if it’s the production team and I don’t know whether it’s the sheriff’s office, I don’t know but someone’s hiding something and she also mentioned that people go missing in Idaho all the time.

[00:13:33] Dion Mitchell:  We’re going to take a deeper dive into the investigation but I want to take a quick little turn and find out more about Terrence the individual, if you don’t mind, please share some stories about him. Maybe some information of like, what he was like, was he in a relationship, what kind of music did he like, hobbies, interests, that type of stuff.

[00:13:50] Rochelle Newman: So I would say Terrence is he’s quiet, a quiet person unless he knows you. So if he knows you, then he’ll open up a bit to you, but he’s very reserved, very quiet, but very loving and caring and he loves traveling, which is the reason why he’s always loved London as well. That’s why he was in London because he just loved it here. I don’t know why. Because I’m trying to get over to LA. I don’t understand it but and he yeah he just loved traveling what he liked to be by himself quite a bit when he was traveling and filming. Kind of a free spirit I would say and he had different groups of friends. So he had like his TV friends and then some people, the majority of his friends were in the TV industry, but he met people through people and that’s how he kind of got along in London.

[00:14:43] Mehul Anjaria: Well, you know, Rochelle, something that was brought up was that before he went missing, the story goes that he was with the crew at a restaurant and he met a young lady and exchanged numbers. What’s your thoughts on that? Is that something that is you know, within Terrence’s character to do?

[00:15:02] Rochelle Newman: I don’t know if Terrence has that kind of like, should I say- game. I don’t know if he has that sort of game or confidence. The only way he would say it with us lot in the TV industry. We all were friends, because we were on the same scheme. So I don’t know if he has that sort of confidence to be oh, yeah, let’s meet up. No, he doesn’t. I’ll be honest, he does not.

[00:15:23] Dion Mitchell: So he wasn’t when he was gone. He was not in a relationship when like in London or in Maryland.

[00:15:29] Rochelle Newman: I think he was seeing someone in London and yeah, he’s seeing someone in London or he was in and out of a relationship in London but I don’t know how serious that was.

[00:15:41] Mehul Anjaria: Rochelle, did you ever know Terrence to have any sort of interesting health issues, whether they be mental or physical?

[00:15:48] Rochelle Newman: No mental, physical, nothing, nothing at all. They say that he had possibly sleeping problems. Sometimes. Not sleeping problems. Sorry, I’m flying. So he had problems like when flying or something like that but anytime I’ve met him or being around him, he’s never mentioned it I’ve never seen anything and any of his close friends who were with him have said that he didn’t. Now this is coming from them and coming from his family. You never really know what’s going on with an individual themselves but from what we know, and his medical stuff, and what his dad said, and his friends who have been with him in London, he didn’t, no.

[00:16:29] Dion Mitchell: Yeah, obviously, that was a big point of the team there. They were saying maybe had some kind of a mental break but usually those don’t come out of the blue. So we had to ask that question.

[00:16:39] Rochelle Newman: Yeah. Yeah, of course. That’s what they’re gonna say. That’s their story.

[00:16:42] Dion Mitchell: Yeah, I want to ask you about this, this text message that he received, that Terrence Senior received from his son, and stated that he’s not sure it came from Terence, what are your thoughts on that?

[00:16:53] Rochelle Newman: I don’t believe anything came from Terrence. Now, the lady who said that she saw Terrence in the supermarket when he looks like when he was in a rush, she said the time when he was there in that part of Idaho, she doesn’t know how he reached to where they said he went missing within that certain amount of time. Now, I don’t know how big Idaho is or anything like that but she said the timings don’t add up. His social media, the pictures that he’s posted on his social media, the last three or two that he’s posted, on, synchronize with the ones that he posted beforehand. So the ones that he was posting while he was away in Montana, or Idaho or wherever they say he is aren’t in the same kind of correlation and I just don’t think it was Terrence from the first time I heard that Terrence sent this text I said that’s not Terrence, because you just I don’t know, there’s something that you just know, he never sent that text message. Someone else sent that from his phone and that’s why they wouldn’t give us the records on his phone.

[00:17:53] Mehul Anjaria: Wow. Rochelle, you’ve kind of touched on this but can you tell us about some of the specific ways that you’ve advocated for Terrence in the last few years, and what the importance or role of social media has been in that process.

[00:18:08] Rochelle Newman: So we have I’ve been posting about Terrence’s disappearance on Twitter since it happened and telling people, even people in the TV industry in the UK and London have said that if it wasn’t for me, they wouldn’t have known about Terrence’s disappearance, Now Raw have said that they let people know that Terrence went missing when it happened. I was like, No, you did not because no one knew about it. So I’ve used Twitter, any moment that I get, whereas for example, there one of the heads of Raw, she went on to the Edinburgh TV Festival, which is like a big festival in the UK, talking about how we need to look after one another and I was just like, Well, you didn’t look after Terrence and no one’s been able to help us find out where he is or what really happened to him. So what we did is kind of use that as a leverage to kind of tweet about his disappearance with the Fox news video and that got like 1000s of retweets, and 1000s of people have viewed that and then unfortunately, when the killing of George Floyd happened last year, I saw that as a way to get  Terrence’s story out there, which really helped, because that’s when I was able to send it to Deadline and send it to Vice and then that’s when Dr. Phil got in touch with us and one of the other talk shows in LA got back to us, and we’re wanting to do his story but we stuck out for Dr. Phil because it’s got the biggest reach, which it does have.

[00:19:38] Dion Mitchell: Do you have any more appearances coming up?

[00:19:40] Rochelle Newman: Not at the moment. We don’t have anything can it’s coming up to his third? I don’t even know what to call it anniversary. Yeah, so we haven’t got anything at the moment yet. People don’t really care. That’s totally honest with you in the UK. They’re just like, Oh, this is a US thing. Well not really, because he was with UK production company who were out in the US. Yes, Terrence was a US citizen, but he was present in the UK for five years and he worked here and he went to study his masters here.

[00:20:16] Dion Mitchell: I find it mind boggling that this hasn’t been the torch has been passed to, you know, a big public figure that’s really put some energy behind it and use their brand to to cast a big light on this.

[00:20:27] Rochelle Newman: Apart from Brooke, What was her name? Brooke, one of the celebrities for God, I can’t remember her name. One of the celebrities only Brooke. Hold on guys, Brooke Shields, she posted about it on her Instagram page but other than that, no one else we’ve reached out to so many people sent into all of these big Instagram news publications, specifically the ones that are directed at and for black people. Nobody, not one single person and if you speak to anyone about it no one wants to talk about it.

[00:21:05] Dion Mitchell: That’s, that’s really kind of mind boggling. You know, I understand that you’ve done some investigating yourself about Terrence’s, disappearance and you’ve spoken to some people close to the case. What if anything, can you share that perhaps has not been made public?

[00:21:23] Rochelle Newman: That hasn’t been made public? I think the biggest thing is like the lady that I spoke to, that saw him the day before he disappeared. I’ve had people contact me anonymously, who have worked at Raw TV, and have heard people laughing and joking about Terence’s disappearance, saying that hahaha should we use some of the footage from the day that Terrence disappeared and that has made some people leave Raw TV, because they felt so uncomfortable. So that’s a piece of information that I can share. People are scared to talk up people need to open their mouths, I don’t care what happens in life, what you’re going through at the moment. He’s still missing and that’s what I find so difficult by the fact of that if I came to LA last year, actually, to film True Crime documentaries. Just me and my cameraman and when I was there, one of the district attorney’s there was at sunset drive. He said to me Rochelle be careful out here and I said why? He said Rochelle you need to be careful that he’s a white man and I’m a black woman. He never said that to the my white camera, man and that’s that’s the reality of it and reality of black people in general, which people don’t understand.

[00:22:39] Mehul Anjaria: Wow, so this was a Los Angeles district attorney Who told you that?

[00:02:46] Rochelle Newman: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Last year, I went to LA and he just told me to be careful.

[00:22:49] Mehul Anjaria: Well, I wanted to ask you, Rochelle about a Twitter exchange that you had recently and not to put anyone on blast here, but just to understand the issue and so specifically, I’m referring to an organization that claims to support TV and film workers. You had a little interchange with them. I think it might have been last week. Can you kind of break that down for us?

[00:23:09] Rochelle Newman: So I’ve contacted them before about help and they contacted me saying oh, Rochelle I’m sorry to say that no one’s helped you. Let’s have a chat. I’ve given you my email address, given you all my information, great and they said we’ll talk but then last week, all of a sudden, its international missing persons day, which I didn’t even know and they’ve tweeted about Terrence’s case, saying, well, we don’t know why Terrence disappeared. However, this amount of people suffer with mental health and I was like hold on a second. Hold on, hold on a second. I haven’t heard anything from you guys but you’re there tweeting about Terrence’s story before talking to myself, but most importantly, his family members, you’re wrong.

[00:2353] Mehul Anjaria: Making inferences.

[00:23:54] Rochelle Newman: Exactly.

[00:23:55] Dion Mitchell: What does mental health have to do with that he’s still missing whether he had mental health issues or not.

[00:23:59] Rochelle Newman: Or not or not. So they have apologized, and they’ve taken down the tweet they are looking for what  is it a racism and bullying advisor which people think I should go for. I’ll think about it but am I really going to get to say what I want to say about the TV industry and about the way we’re treated? I don’t know. So that that’s my problem. Even though you know, even the scheme that we were on is one of the biggest organizations in the UK called Pact. That was the scheme that we were all on they said they haven’t mentioned Terrence at all haven’t spoken about him nothing and they’ve received some horrid emails from me just explaining like we are upset we are dealing with a lot of mental health problems at the moment can you help, oh Rochelle we’re busy at the moment or I can talk to you about can’t talk to you about this it’s not good enough.

[00:24:46] Dion Mitchell: No, it sounds kind of crazy if that’s the whole purpose of the organization and yet they’re doing I think lift a finger to help you out.

[00:24:52] Rochelle Newman: Help diversity. Oh, you’re really helping diversity. When someone goes missing, get out of here.

[00:24:59] Dion Mitchell: What do you think? You know, as they say there’s a new Sheriff in town. What do you think about the change in the in Idaho county with the new Sheriff? And what are your thoughts about him being more open to digging deeper into Terrence’s case?

[00:25:09] Rochelle Newman: I haven’t heard anything well I’ve heard is that they’re the guy that did Terrence’s case, he left or they fired him, and that there’s going to be someone more there is someone, but my issue is, is coming up to three years now. The longer it goes on, or the longer it’s gone on already is the less evidence there is, unless one of the people that were with him on the team are going to speak up, then we don’t really have nowhere to go. Where, What is he really going to do? The reason why they won’t give out. They weren’t. So is it closed Terrence’s case is because they know whatever’s happened is very, very, very bad. Because they closed the lady’s case that went missing. Like they said that she’s deceased. Why don’t you just do the same to Terrence? That’s because something more happened.

[00:25:59] Mehul Anjaria: So this leads to really the big question for you, Rochelle, based on everything that you know, and have uncovered, what is your opinion on what most likely happened to Terrence?

[00:26:10] Rochelle Newman: My opinion is that Terrence was being bullied by Simon Gee and whoever else on that team and that he wanted to come home, they probably wouldn’t let him come home because that’s what TV productions like, you know, TV and film, you need to be literally dying. No you literally need to you need to be dead before they can get away with anything and that’s what happened. So they were bullying him. He wanted to come home and then maybe something happened. I don’t know whether they got him to take something or whether he just ran I don’t know but I know for certain that Simon Gee. was bullying him and that crew. They were bullying him and something happened. I don’t think it happened up on the Penman Mines were this as they say he was because I don’t think he was there. I think something happened at the hotel in Idaho, because his dad spoke to him. Was it the night just before he went missing? A couple of hours or the day before? And he spoke to him on the phone. So something happened there after he got off the phone to Mr. T.

[00:27:16] Dion Mitchell: So you don’t actually think that he went missing at the actual locations the shooting site?

[00:27:22] Rochelle Newman: No way

[00:27:24] Dion Mitchell: What are your thoughts on the local hire the transportation lady Sheree, I believe her name was saying that she saw him take off like a rabbit down the hill or something to that effect.

[00:27:34] Rochelle Newman: I think what’s something that’s really important for everyone to know is that all this information that we’ve got about Terrence’s disappearance is coming from their mouths, and we cannot trust these people at all. We don’t know anything about Terrence’s disappearance, let’s say we don’t know anything about Terrence’s disappearance, because we don’t all of this is coming from them. We don’t have the other side. We don’t have nothing at all. I think the only way we can take off this from where Mr. T dropped him at that airport and that’s it. Other than that, do we know that he really arrived in Montana? Yeah, there’s pictures on his Well, yeah, there’s pictures on his Instagram of Montana. So we know that he possibly got there but then after that, what really happened to T? We don’t know.

[00:00:21] Dion Mitchell: So that’s a question actually I’ve had for myself and thinking about this and but you believe that he made it to Idaho?

[00:28:24] Rochelle Newman: Yeah, I think he possibly did make it to Idaho. Yeah, I think he did make it to Idaho. I don’t think he made it up to where they said they were filming. I have spoken to like this Indians, like did you know that real like a real Indians like actually exists, like the ones that pray on the top of the mountains and all of that. So I was searching for Instagram and this man who’s like an Indian type of spiritual man, he went up to the mine where Terrence went missing. He said he didn’t see anything. I think this was 2020. He went up there. Or before that. He said he didn’t see anything, or what he did do is left a prayer at the top of the mountains for Terrence and he said that he had a vision that he might have got stuck in one of the light air vents and stuff but you know, these are just stuff that people say and what they believe. So that’s his belief, which could be possible.

[00:29:26] Dion Mitchell: Okay, so let me let me do a hypothetical with you. I gave you an unlimited budget, and a team. What key things do you think need to be done in the investigation today? What would you do? I say, here we go, Rochelle, boom. Everything you need is at your disposal. What are you doing?

[00:29:40] Rochelle Newman: His phone records I’m gonna look into first of all to find out if we can find out where the phone loss was. I’m bringing in every single person from that crew in for questioning, and no one is leaving until we get a clear timeline of what actually happened to Terrence, we’re going to check his his bank accounts as well check his diaries, his cameras, we’re going to get into that frickin laptop and we want that paperwork from the Sheriff’s department as well and I think that’s all and the CCTV from the hotel he was staying in. Because I don’t know if you guys have seen that motel because we don’t have really motels in the UK. That motel is scary. I wouldn’t stay there. We need everything. Mr. T has Terrence’s camera and the laptop but not a phone. They said the phone is with Terrence allegedly.

[00:30:38] Dion Mitchell: Has anybody made an attempt to sue or one way or another to get to the records on where his phone had been pinged that day and the previous days?

[00:30:49] Rochelle Newman: No, we don’t even know how to do that. We’ve been left out in the open trying to get help from private investigators and the media and we don’t even know where to turn anymore.

[00:30:52] Dion Mitchell: Was his phone, a US phone or UK phone?

[00:30:58] Rochelle Newman: A UK chip. So he has a UK chip number.

[00:31:12] Dion Mitchell: Okay. This area of Idaho will actually all of Idaho unless you’re around Boise is really really remote. So there’s only a few repeaters towers out there where it can ping. So it would be there’s only like a like a handful. So it would be pretty quick, pretty quick. You’d be able to zero in on this previous as well as last location because there’s only a few towers.

[00:31:18] Rochelle Newman: Yeah. see, and they said they couldn’t do that.

[00:31:40] Mehul Anjaria: Like you say like the private investigators have been a bit of a dead end. It seems what Mr. T really needs now is some kind of legal counsel, in other words, advisement and how do you subpoena these phone records? How do you subpoena records? I know that he would we talked to him, he alluded that he has something in the works. So I hope that really is going to come to fruition and I know that’s not easy, either.

[00:32:04] Rochelle Newman: We’ve always had something like in the works or someone said they’re going to help and it doesn’t come to anything, because there’s literally only me, him, his mom and other people when they want to get involved. Other than that, like if people wanted Dr. Phil’s quote, okay, I’ll go on Dr. Phil, other than that you don’t hear from anyone.

[00:32:27] Mehul Anjaria: Now I know that you have a GoFundMe campaign active, how is how is that doing?

[00:32:33] Rochelle Newman: Not good. Not good. We don’t really know how to work these things but even I think Dr. Phil, Vice, Deadline, all of these publications and broadcasters, they’re big things but still, the push for Terrence’s story has not been the same. Because he’s a black man. I’ll tell you guys a story like two black girls got murdered last year in London and literally their case hardly ever received any notice in the news, two they’re sisters.

[00:33:08] Mehul Anjaria: Well, it’s like, you know, the we had the big case few years ago, the Grim Sleeper in LA that was cracked and turned out the cops were saying they used the term no humans involved, in other words, all of the victims were black women.

[00:33:21] Rochelle Newman: Yeah, I was doing that case last year. He died. Yeah, he died. As soon as I got back to London.

[00:33:29] Dion Mitchell: Rochelle, did you hear about this other guy that passed away?  Jesse Goins a gold miner who appeared on the same show Terrence as was working? What are your thoughts on that?

[00:33:38] Rochelle Newman: And they put out a big news article and everything about it and then some people who watch Gold Rush they say we’re saying what about Terrence Woods? Why is no one said anything about Terrence Woods?

[00:33:48] Dion Mitchell: Do you think there’s any connection? Or do you think that shows cursed? What do you what do you think that’s about?

[00:33:51] Rochelle Newman: The show is definitely cursed, because I know people who have worked on it and they said it’s got a massive bullying culture, massive mahoosive bullying culture. You’ve got these like big macho man, old school TV directors, who just want to make sure that they’ve got it done. A lot of them have got PTS depression because of how they’ve been treated in the industry and how long they’ve been working in, there for, so it’s got a massive bullying culture and also, one thing that I need to make aware is that Terrence it’s not the first time Terrence has worked for Raw TV. He worked with them in London, and a couple months before he went missing. He worked with them in Alaska and he came home to London, and he was fine and another thing because I listened to Mr. T’s podcast with you guys, in terms of Terrence talking to Simon Gee beforehand, he probably didn’t even speak to Simon Gee beforehand, when you’re on production, it’s just like, Okay, this is who you’re going to be with and you show up.

[00:34:48] Dion Mitchell: Here’s your call time.

[00:34:49] Rochelle Newman: Here’s your call the time right that’s it. So Simon probably didn’t even speak you probably they probably mentioned Okay, we got this guy Terrence Woods he seems great and that’s it, but I highly doubt that they ever had a conversation.

[00:35:04] Mehul Anjaria: Rochelle, we talked a little bit about the media coverage of Terrence’s disappearance in the US and how it really hasn’t been prolific. Yeah, a couple articles here and there but it’s fizzled out. What about in the UK? When it first happened was there coverage? Is there any coverage at all?

[00:35:22] Rochelle Newman: Nothing, no coverage at all about this there’s still no coverage about Terrence in the UK nothing. There’s Vice, okay that’s Vice UKish but Deadline that was still basically American because I never heard of Deadline before my friends brought to my attention, by the way, and Dr. Phil, no show will take it because no broadcaster will take it because he’s a US citizen and it happened in the US. That’s the problem but people fail to understand that it was a UK production company that have done this.

[00:35:57] Dion Mitchell: It seems like there’s like his story is a little bit of a gray area. You know, it’s UK, you can use excuse here, he’s American here and it’s just kind of fallen in between the cracks a little bit.

[00:36:09] Rochelle Newman: Yeah but I’ll tell you something is that Raw and Discovery, they’re very scared. Because they know that Terrence’s case is going to blow up soon and they’re very scared of what’s going to happen. So they should be.

[00:36:18] Dion Mitchell: You know, sooner or later we were talking about this before you jumped on sooner or later, someone’s conscience is gonna come clean and go I can’t deal with this anymore and they’re gonna say something.

[00:36:29] Rochelle Newman: Yeah, because I hope I hope it is killing their conscience right now. Because every bit I put like my whole year last year, I put into practically Terrence’s disappearance where I already got myself into, I nearly had a mental breakdown last year, near Christmas because I was just like, this is just too much because I was trying to do everything. Even now I’ve done everything. And I still don’t feel like I’ve done enough.

[00:36:51] Dion Mitchell: How can our listeners help? how can how can the rest of the public, our listeners help solve the mystery of, of Terrence’s disappearance?

[00:36:59] Rochelle Newman: Try and get people to speak up if you know anyone posts his story. If anyone knows anyone who might be able to help Mr. T with the laptop who lives locally, like any one at all who can help in this case, and think you know what, I’m a genuine person. I could be of any assistance, lawyers, crime experts, anything. We need help with everything. Because we don’t literally you don’t have anything for anyone.

[00:37:27] Mehul Anjaria: Rochelle, what else do we need to know about why it has been so difficult to get more information or to have any breakthroughs on Terrence’s whereabouts mean, just go into maybe some more of the roadblocks that seemed to be unique to this case,

[00:37:41] Rochelle Newman: The TV industry is corrupt first of all, and they it’s just the money, and money is important, but the TV industry is just corrupt and people just don’t care about anyone or anything. I don’t know if you guys have seen on Instagram this page called @ia_stories and people in the TV industry are just talking about their stories and what they’ve been through. They’ve got over 40,000 followers now and people talk about their experiences anonymously, like the industry is is dying, and people are actually dying in the industry. So there’s a big problem. This is a massive problem.

[00:38:26] Dion Mitchell: As you know it’s all about your next job, and people just don’t want to do anything that’s going to rock that opportunity. So it’s it’s rather they would put their head in the sand and move on and you know, be a team player than do the right thing.

[00:38:46] Rochelle Newman: Yeah, and that’s the problem. It doesn’t doesn’t help anyone. I think a lot of people not speaking up about Terrence’s case is causing more harm than good. Because if this was to happen again, then someone else is going to be losing a family member but the thing is, is what people don’t understand is that this is the biggest thing ever in TV and film in the TV and film industry to ever happen. This is the biggest thing to ever happen. Full stop, and look how it’s been treated.

[00:39:15] Dion Mitchell: I agree when I first saw the article in Deadline a number years ago, I was like, why isn’t this on every news channel? I still do not understand and that actually leads me to my next question and you kind of briefly touched on this already, but what individual organization has been the most helpful in spreading the word about Terrence?

[00:39:37] Rochelle Newman: Nothing! No one! Me.

[00:39:41] Mehul Anjaria: Yeah, you know, Mr. T gave the exact same answer. I mean, this is unbelievable.

[00:39:46] Rochelle Newman: Me like Mr. T, if it wasn’t for me actually reaching out to Mr. T and talking to him and actually, you know, Raw. There’s so much more to this and I learned more about Terrence from him and everything about their life and the way they’re living and I can tell you for a fact, if Terrence wanted to disappear, he would have disappeared in the UK, he’s not going to go and disappear in Idaho.

[00:40:07] Dion Mitchell: Yeah, you don’t go home to do it.

[00:40:09] Rochelle Newman: He’s not he’s not going to do that and that’s what I’m saying to people, this is wrong and people are like, Oh, did he have mental health, I don’t give a crap. Even if Terrence did have mental health problems, he’s not at home. That is the biggest problem. He’s not home.

[00:40:23] Mehul Anjaria: Well, Rochelle, as we wrap it up, we just want to give you the floor here at the end to say anything else you’d like to about Terrence and the ongoing efforts to find out what actually happened to him- so take it away.

[00:40:34] Rochelle Newman: I just want to say to the TV industry, and everyone out there is that you guys all need to do more, to help support Terrence’s case and find out what happened to to him but also support one another. For anyone that’s going to be listening from Raw and Discovery because I know they will, your conscience is going to kill you and we will find out what happened to Terrence and I hope anything bad that happens to you will happen to you because it needs to because you’re just a bad person and I’m just so sick and tired of this industry. Although I love what I do, and I love helping people, I won’t be working in the TV industry full time ever again, until I have my own company and my own things, because people are just losing their lives and I will continue to fight for Terrence and to find out what happened to him. That’s it.

[00:41:24] Dion Mitchell: That’s a great statement. We really appreciate your unique insight on this disturbing mystery and we of course, hope that Terrence’s family gets some answers and relief very soon and we want to thank you so much for taking the time,we know it’s late there, for joining us today on Crime Redefined.

[00:41:41] Rochelle Newman: Thank you guys, thank you so much for what you’re doing.

[00:41:45] Dion Mitchell: I’m so glad we talked to Rochelle, she really helps fill in some of the blanks. She has been really an excellent soldier for the Woods family and it’s sad to see how she’s been so negatively affected by all of this.

[00:41:58] Mehul Anjaria: Well, you know, I would say it’s definitely one thing to be sort of passively involved in crime research and journalism but man, it’s a whole different emotional level when the case you’re working in, you know, is close to you and involves a loved one but you know, even if you don’t know parties involved in a case, I think this is an excellent reminder to anybody working in the criminal justice system, whether you’re a detective or you’re working in the crime lab, or you’re just even doing True Crime podcasts, you know, you can be deeply affected by these kinds of things and I can tell you, Dion that I routinely see absolutely horrifying images and I read detailed case accounts of some of the worst things imaginable. It’s just unbelievable what people can do to each other and I think that when you do this type of work, you have to be mindful of the cumulative effect of these things. Almost like like a poison, you might say, well, this doesn’t bug me, this doesn’t affect me but after doing it for months, and months, and years and years.

[00:42:59] Dion Mitchell: And actually subconsciously, you don’t know how it’s stacking up on you.

[00:43:02] Mehul Anjaria: Exactly, it seems like it was starting to catch up with with Rochelle.

[00:43:05] Dion Mitchell: Yeah, almost to where it sounded at the end of the conversation, like she wanted to tap out, she just didn’t have any more left in the tank but right now she’s a she’s a soldier, she’s gonna keep moving forward. I think she also laid out a good reminder about the entertainment industry, and the sometimes dark side of it. You know, after spending years and years on set, you know, there’s a lot of great people. So let me start there. There’s, you know, I’ve been, I’ve been really fortunate to know some really nice and really kind people, but, you know, these sets can be very cliquish, you know, very territorial and there can be some some ugliness to it and, you know, hopefully, that’s not the case but I’ve seen, I’ve seen both sides of it and it’s a shame that the other one goes on, but I’m sure that you have that in every workplace.

[00:43:58] Mehul Anjaria: Yeah and I think in the entertainment industry, you know, it’s one thing if it’s like, hahaha, the PA has to get everybody’s coffee order right or whatever but when it gets to that next level of essentially, bullying or something like that, that’s just unacceptable anywhere.

[00:44:13] Dion Mitchell: No, I couldn’t agree more and hopefully, you know, by us, you know, talking about it, and just putting more out in the Zeitgeist and people are paying attention to, you know, the less of that will, will take place. In other words, you know, you shine a spotlight on it, people aren’t going to do it and that’s just, you know, what we need to do

[00:44:29] Mehul Anjaria: Yeah, well, you know, when you compare Terrence’s case, to, say, a cold case, or a post-conviction case, you know, if you don’t have any new physical evidence that turns up, which we don’t seem to have in this case, well, the next best thing would be to develop new witnesses and so what I thought was really remarkable is you know, how Rochelle said that there was a lady who saw Terrance in the supermarket, and that’s huge because that then seemed to disrupt the timeline of when he went missing, because the implication was that from the time that she saw him in the supermarket to the time he went missing, he couldn’t have possibly gotten up the hill in that time period.

[00:45:10] Dion Mitchell: That was really riveting to listen to for the first time. You know, it’s our hope that by us, staying involved in keeping Terrence’s story alive that somehow some way, even more people will come forward and all it takes is a small kernel of information to snowball into something bigger and I truly believe we discussed this with with Rochelle, that’s, you know, sooner or later, someone’s going to want to clear their conscience on this good, bad or ugly, whatever the information is, they’re going to want to get it off their chest.

[00:45:37] Mehul Anjaria: Yeah and also, I would say in terms of, you know, the possibility of people like attorneys or experts jumping in to help on the case, it may seem from the outside now that it’s overwhelming that there’s kind of nothing to work with, right? but when you start to get more and more new leads, like the lady in the supermarket, I mean, that hope that some of the rocks have been unturned, and there’s new info out there that might actually ignite someone to get off the sidelines and help get involved in the investigation.

[00:46:10] Dion Mitchell: Or just or maybe just help someone remember, Hey, you know what, maybe I did see that guy. Um, it was pretty hard to hear that Rochelle concerned not just about her career, but even her life. I mean, no one should have to go through that when you’re trying to, find a missing friend, you know, but it shows that you can never be too careful when you start turning over rocks and stirring up things in whatever industry, not just entertainment but she’s shown such a loyalty and bravery and like she says, If she doesn’t do it, who will?

[00:46:40] Mehul Anjaria: Yeah, and then this whole next level, the fact that this is basically an international case, on one hand, the key witnesses are now in the UK but basically this is played out and portrayed as a US case and I think Rochelle hit it on the head when she labeled this as an international missing persons investigation and my gosh, Dion, that sounds daunting, especially if two people are working on it and I wanted to ask you as as our entertainment guy, you know, what are your thoughts on this suggestion that maybe Terence his disappearance is one of the biggest mysteries ever, you know, on a production set or in the entertainment industry?

[00:47:24] Dion Mitchell: Well, there’s obviously been some big ones like Natalie Wood, and some other cases like that but that wasn’t on a set. So as far as a set goes, it’s that I can think of right now, It’s funny, because it’s definitely the biggest, but it’s also the least well known, which is what we’ve been kind of going harping on from the beginning.

[00:47:46] Mehul Anjaria: Most mysterious yeah, because of the lack of coverage.

[00:47:48] Dion Mitchell: Which in itself is a mystery and that also leads to, you know, kind of a conspiracy, you know, for conspiracies to pop up but I agree, I think it’s one of the biggest ones, because this was directly on a set, you just don’t walk off a set and never be heard or seen from again, it just does not happen but I think the problem is what you just laid out and what Rochelle laid out, was the gray area with this is that one country saying oh, he’s a UK guy, and another one saying, oh, it’s a US deal, and then all it does is fall through the cracks.

[00:48:20] Mehul Anjaria: Yeah, that’s exactly the word I was gonna use falling through the cracks. So Crime Redefined’s call to action for our wonderful listeners and social media followers is, you know, please get the word out about our episodes and about Terrence Woods, you know, tell a friend, let people know about this mystery one way or the other and of course, if anybody out there has any info, or can provide any technical assistance, please let us know, or Rochelle know or Terrence Woods, Sr.

[00:48:51] Dion Mitchell: Yeah, not only that, but give us your take, you know, I know that there’s a lot of amateur sleuths out there. Listen to our podcasts, listen to some of the experts do your own investigation, and then, send us a message, send Rochelle a message, send Terrence Sr. a message and give us your take so maybe, there’s some some cloud investigation we could put together and maybe that helps us put these these these pieces together where we try to get a better idea of what happened to Terrence.

[00:49:21] Mehul Anjaria: Yeah, and to that end, you know, maybe there’s somebody else we should interview on Crime Redefined.

[00:49:27] Dion Mitchell: Who did we miss? Thats a great point.

[00:49:29] Mehul Anjaria: And should should we keep going? Can we offer value here? It’ll be interesting to see how this evolves. So yeah, please let us know.

[00:49:32] Dion Mitchell: Then definitely like, like Rochelle says, news moves on so hopefully Terrence’s story can gain some real momentum now. Rochelle’s Twitter handle is @rochellesnewman. There’s also a Twitter account for Find Terrance Woods which is at @findterrencewds and there is also a hashtag at #findterrencewoods. Also, if you can please contribute to the GoFundMe set up for Terrence Woods the campaign is entitled Find My Missing Son Terrance Woods. It’s actually looks like the goal of funding the campaign is in sight, so if you can even a $1 would be great. I’m sure that Terrence Sr. would appreciate it and once again, we hope all our listeners and followers are finding the saga interesting and as always, we truly appreciate all the support we have received worldwide. Until next time, be well.

[00:50:43] Announcer: Thank you for listening to the Crime Redefined Podcast, like us on Facebook and follow us on Twitter @crimeredefined. Please send us your comments and questions and join us for the next episode.





Find Terrence Woods-Part 1-S1 33

27-year-old Terrence Woods went missing on October 5, 2018.  He was working with a production crew that was filming a TV series in mountainous central Idaho.  Reportedly he ran down a steep embankment in the Idaho wilderness never to be seen again.  His father Terrence Woods, Sr. joins Crime Redefined to set the record straight on what may have happened and how he feels the investigation has been handled and portrayed in the media. Part 1 of 2 of our interview with Terrence Woods, Sr. https://www.gofundme.com/f/2hqmj-find-my-missing-son-terrence-woods

[00:00:00] Announcer: Welcome to the Crime Redefined Podcast produced by Zero Cliff Media coming to you from the US Bank Tower high above downtown Los Angeles. In our podcast, we drill deep into forensics and criminal investigation from the viewpoint of the defense, as well as explore the intersection of the media and the justice system.

[00:00:21] Dion Mitchell: Thanks for joining us on Crime Redefined today. I’m Dion Mitchell here with my Crime Redefined cohost Mehul Anjaria. We truly appreciate you taking the time to listen to our episodes and interact with us on social media.

[00:00:33] Mehul Anjaria: Please keep the comments coming on Twitter and Instagram and all of that, we like to hear your feedback and commentary on how we’re doing. So today we have the honor of talking to Terrence Woods Sr. whose son Terrence Jr., mysteriously disappeared almost three years ago on October 5th, 2018 to this day there are no real substantial leads as to what may have happened to him. So needless to say, this has been a very grueling and long ordeal for our special guest today.

[00:01:06] Dion Mitchell: We just felt it was important to give Terrence Senior another platform to get his perspective on his son’s disappearance out there, just like in a cold case investigation, the more, the story is told, the more likely it is that someone will come forward with new information, ideas, or resources to help solve this mystery. So today we’re going to take a little bit of time and we’re going to set this up for you with all the details that we have and where things stand as of today.

[00:01:35] Mehul Anjaria: Yeah. This will be brief, I mean, certainly you can read a lot about the case and we’ll, after we talked to Terrence, we can all decide what are established facts and what are in question, but it goes like this Terrence Jr. was part of a 12 person crew from a London based production company and they were on site in Idaho working on a TV show in the Orogrande area of Central Idaho.

[00:02:01] Dion Mitchell: Now another kind of full disclosure, I’m familiar with this area and it is heavily forested and it’s also at elevation of about 4,500 feet. It is truly a no man’s land where the Penman mine is located as you’ll hear from Terrence, even the basic facts surrounding his son’s disappearance are not necessarily agreed on.

[00:02:22] Mehul Anjaria: Right. So let’s go with again, just what’s been reported kind of universally, so it was reported that on the evening of October 5th, 2018, again, almost three years ago that Terrence, all of a sudden said that he needed to go to the bathroom and he put down his handheld radio and proceeded to run extremely fast down a very steep embankment into treacherous terrain and from that point supposedly crew members ran down this embankment after him basically didn’t see him, I guess they couldn’t catch up to him. Didn’t find a trace of him and it was claimed that when these crew members then came back up the embankment, that because of the terrain and all the trees, their clothes were torn and they were actually scraped up

[00:03:09] Dion Mitchell: As they should be. Like I said, this is heavily forested and most of the ground there is either, what’s the word for it? Where branches and stuff come down and it’s a lot of shale rock. So it’s slippery going and I believe there was snow on the ground at the time, or at least some moisture, which would have made it even more treacherous, Mehul.

[00:03:29] Mehul Anjaria: Yeah. We’ll get into this, but it’s worth noting that Terrence was not known as a mountain man or anything like that.

[00:03:36] Dion Mitchell: I think it’s fair to say he’s a city guy for the most part.

[00:03:38] Mehul Anjaria: And there were descriptions. Yeah. Him running like, like a hare or something very fast down the steep embankment. So we’ll get into that with Terrence.

[00:03:46] Dion Mitchell: So anyway, the crew now, did what they needed to do and a put out the call and a search ensued for Terrence Jr. In this harsh terrain, including scent dogs, helicopters with thermal imaging equipment and a search and rescue team. There was no evidence developed that Terrence had been in the area it was claimed that he ran to.

[00:04:08] Mehul Anjaria: So now this is an interesting development. I think this would depend on what filter, you’re looking at the facts through. So what you described can mean one or two things, basically, right? This is a mystery. This guy ran down and there’s this no sight of him. What, what the hell happened, or if you want to play devil’s advocate, you might look at this and say, well, wait a minute. They threw everything they could and there’s no sign that he ever ran down that embankment, so did that even happen? So, of course, Terrence Senior and Terrence’s mom wanted to get out to Idaho as soon as possible, find out what the heck was going on and when they did that, they expected to meet with the Sheriff of Idaho county, as well as the TV crew that Terrence was with on the shoot, because obviously they would be the best witness, but when they got to the Sheriff’s department, there was only one crew member left at the meeting and apparently the rest had already returned to London, and this episode that they were all filming actually never made it to the air.

[00:05:08] Dion Mitchell: So it just kind of, just ups, the level of the mystery, right?

[00:05:12] Mehul Anjaria: Yeah, it sure does. Is there a reason that they weren’t at the Sheriff’s department?

[00:05:17] Dion Mitchell: If anything it just doesn’t look right. So although Terrence has spent some time in London working in production, he’d been living with Terrance senior in Maryland when he agreed to the goldmine shoot. When Terrance left home for the shoot, the first stop he made with the crew was actually, and I believe he was picked up in the, in an airport in Montana , it was not in Idaho. So as you will hear from Terrence Senior, the overall investigation is sadly lacking. Which in my opinion is kind of a mystery there another mystery in itself, there does not seem to even be definitive evidence that Terrence ever made it to Idaho from Montana.

[00:05:58] Mehul Anjaria: Yeah, Dion I have to admit, I really hadn’t heard of this case until you brought it to my attention year and a half ago and I know you kept pushing me. Hey, check this out and then when I finally did.

[00:06:09] Dion Mitchell: I know you love a good mystery.

[00:06:10] Mehul Anjaria: Absolutely, and you were right so, you know, to kind of study up on the case. I think we both read the articles that were out there. There’s one on Deadline, there’s one on Vice, I think those are the major ones anyway and then there’s a six-part Fox Five podcast called Missing Pieces: Into the Woods and then finally at the end of 2020 there was a Dr. Phil episode dedicated to the disappearance of Terrence and yeah. I have to say, I tuned out a little bit after Dr. Phil and I sort of just assumed that, well, after the Dr. Phil episode, there’s going to be a big break. That’s going to solve it. That’s the publicity, it needed a, there’s going to be some new leads and all of that and then, just, I don’t know, a few weeks ago, poking around on the internet. I couldn’t find one development in that case, or any evidence of any leads that came from the Dr. Phil Show and I was kind of shocked because, isn’t that the thing now in cold case investigation, that you get it on a podcast, you get it on, somebody and it just shakes it up.

[00:07:14] Dion Mitchell: I mean, come on. This is Dr. Phil. That’s a lot of eyeballs.

[00:07:16] Mehul Anjaria: Yeah. I mean, how are you going to reach more people? In fact, we talked to Lindsey Wade about that too, about rewarming these cold cases and that something always shakes out in this day and age of social media and all that didn’t happen here.

[00:07:31] Dion Mitchell: Yeah. So instead of rehashing the prevailing narrative on what happened at Terrence Jr and pretending we were experts on this case, we wanted to speak directly to Terrence Sr, to get a more well-rounded view of some of the puzzling, assertions and facts surrounding the investigation.

[00:07:48] Mehul Anjaria: Yeah it’s frustrating that there’s just a lot of speculation out there. There’s a lot of connecting the dots, maybe prematurely without the hard evidence or without that what I want to see. I want to see that physical evidence, show me some DNA,  I just, when I’m involved in post conviction investigations. The re-investigation is so thorough, people are knocking on doors and looking at reports and as we’re going to find out, there’s really a dearth of reports and stuff because of the status of the case and so now we’re left with a bunch of theories that are all over the place. So, some would say that well, Terrence he wanted to get off the grid and he wanted to disappear or ghost himself, or maybe there was foul play by somebody, maybe it was his coworkers did Terrence fall into mine shaft? Did he succumb to the elements or to a bear or something like that? There’s also rumor that Terrence had a mental breakdown and there’s probably a whole bunch more. So, our feeling here is let’s kind of get to the closest source we can which is Terrence Jr’s dad Terrence and in the end, as you’ll hear, we had a very poignant and I would say long discussion with Terrence. We’re gonna break this into a two-part episode, and we’re also working on potentially speaking to another person who’s very close to the case and may have some information. So here’s part one of our interview with Terrence Woods Sr.  Terrence we’re honored to have you on Crime Redefined today.

[00:09:18] Terrence Woods Sr.: I thank you for having me as well.

[00:09:20] Mehul Anjaria:  Yeah. Thank you so much for taking some time out of an evening and Terrence, it’s our hope that today’s interview will move that needle forward in the long process of getting some answers about your son.

[00:09:30] Terrence Woods Sr.: We definitely need the answers. It’s going on three years and every time I think I’m getting closer to something and get knocked back 25 feet. I’ve been on Dr. Phil I’ve been on talk shows, Fox Five other radio shows and, spoken to a lot of people in the, in the beginning, everybody, oh, we want to help, we can help X, Y, and Z and the next thing is a dead end.

[00:09:52] Dion Mitchell: Yeah, we’re going to try to do everything we can to just get more information out there and spread the word, but you know, my first question for you is how are you and how are your family? You just mentioned it’s coming up on three years. I’m just wondering how are you doing? And how’s your family doing?

[00:10:04] Terrence Woods Sr.: It’s real rough. I mean, because my two sons Terrance is my oldest and he’s 29 now my youngest son is 25. I’ve been raising my kids for over 18 years by myself although their mothers in their life, we’re not together and I, they’ve always been with me. So it was kinda rough because the day that I took my son to the airport, September 30th, 2018, his bedroom is the same exact way it was the day I took him to the airport. So I don’t know about anyone else, but it’s real difficult on me.

[00:10:32] Dion Mitchell:  There was no way that I think that’s that you, anybody can possibly imagine, you know what you’re going through until you actually go through it. We just wanted to kind of see how you were doing and how you’re doing now. Compared to how you were when you first found the news, those first couple of weeks.

[00:10:47] Terrence Woods Sr.: The first couple of weeks were a shock and it was, denial that this can’t be happening. This can’t be happening, this can’t be happening. We are going to find him and he’s going to come home now, are we going over two and a half years. And you would think it would get better, but it’s getting worse because after two and a half years with no answers still, it’s not a good feeling. I try to go to sleep some nights and my son said dad help me dad help me and I just sit up and go sit in his room on the bed and say, man, I ain’t gonna forget about you. I’m gonna find you. I’m fine, and by the time I know it’s four o’clock I got to go to work. I ain’t been asleep all night. I got to go to work and put on a $9 smile and act like, Hey, what’s going on? and inside of me is like upside down.

[00:11:30] Mehul Anjaria: Well, Terrence, let’s get into some of the reasons why you don’t have any answers. So can you explain for our listeners why it is that the Idaho County Sheriff’s office considers Terrence’s disappearance, an open case? And then how that designation hinders you from collecting more information or, doing your own investigation?

[00:11:55] Terrence Woods Sr.: Well, the sad thing with the Idaho Sheriff’s department is I don’t know what’s going on with them. Right, but to say the least, but if they close the case, then the records become public records. So anyone could get the information. Now, I don’t know if you seen the Dr. Phil show when I was on the Dr. Phil show and when Dr. Phil asked the sheriff, well, why don’t you close the case? So the family can get, information. He said, I’m not closing the case. Well if you don’t close the case, then are you going to still work it? No, we’re not actively looking as well. So if you’re not going to close the case, you’re not going to look for him. Then what’s the hard part about closing it, why don’t you want us to see what you have not really done, and the lies that you all have told people.

[00:12:45] Dion Mitchell: I was going to say, what’s your gut feeling of why he would be holding this up and when it just makes no sense logical sense of why he would be kind of working against you?

[00:12:51] Terrence Woods Sr.: Because it’s more behind it, then he’s admitting to, and that he wanted anyone to know. They know they dropped the ball. If they didn’t have something to do with the ball from day one, when I got to Idaho, when I went to Sheriff’s department, this young man that worked there, he said, and this is the person I spoke to on the phone. He worked in the Sheriff department. He’s the one that took the 911 call when he took the 911 call and I spoke, he said, Mr. Woods, something’s not right about it. Something is not right. He said, when you get to Idaho, make sure you see me. When I got Idaho went to the Sheriff’s department and I seen this person gave me an envelope. He said, whatever you do don’t tell anybody I gave just to you and don’t show it to anybody. No problem. I go back to the hotel room. I opened the envelope up. It’s the original police report. It was called in and it’s police report is saying detail for detail what quote unquote was said when they called this in one, they said my son was a dark complexion person. I don’t know if you seen pictures of my son?

[00:13:52] Dion Mitchell: Yeah. He doesn’t fit that description.

[00:13:54] Terrence Woods Sr.: Not dark at all. Right. Okay. Moving along then. You also. That morning, he had an anxiety attack. Okay. Well, if he had an anxiety attack, did you all call professional medical assistance and no report that you would hear or read or anything No one ever once up to this second, then they call for professional medical assistance, but you told me, oh, we had to detain him. Oh, you said he had an anxiety attack. So do you mean restrain? No. Well, detain mean to hold against your will, detain mean to hold down. If he had an anxiety attack, why would you have to detain him somewhere? No, but everything worked out. You still didn’t answer that question. Well, everything worked out and then we went on out and the day was going along well. Okay, Now everything worked out from him having this anxiety attack. Now mind you, if you look at any of your reports, listen to anything. You don’t hear anyone dwell on Montana. Well, Montana, that’s the place he first went to on September 30th, which was that Sunday. Well, if he was in Montana from Sunday to Thursday, which was the 4th of October now, woke up on the fifth, which was that Friday. No one speak nothing about from Sunday to Thursday, no one say in Montana, he allegedly had an anxiety attack. He was tripping and you had no conversation about Montana. Now he’s in Idaho, but less than 24 hours, the day he wake up that Friday from that Thursday, getting there, he has an anxiety attack. Wow. Out of the clear, but four days he’d been in Montana. We speak nothing of that. No one even shows, there is no pictures of him in Montana you don’t even see any pictures up in Idaho. Okay. So nevertheless, that day going to the fifth. Now you say you’re out on the shoot and he has, this relapse he’s acting strange. He tries to grab a drone out of the sky, still no one sat him down and put them in a car, truck, whatever, and got professional medical assistance. If I go to work right now, if you go to work and your coworkers, see you acting strange out of the norm, whoa, man, let’s call some help for him. No one, not once said they call for professional medical assistance where this person who was at work with 10 other people grown people, you will read nothing no one ever said they call for a professional medical. No one even said they called for medical assistance. Not even putting the word professional in front of it but you all determined that this young man who’d been all over the world, never had an issue. Nowhere before he’s with you over this one trip and it’s one morning, although he was with you four days prior in Montana, which you speak nothing of, but just one morning in Idaho, he wake up that morning, have a mental breakdown, starting the morning off and just lose it in the evening and leap off a cliff and run like a hare.

[00:17:11] Mehul Anjaria: I want to follow up on something you said Terrence, other than, I guess the lucky break of that one police officer handing you that envelope, have you seen any type of official reports on the investigation?

[00:17:24] Terrence Woods Sr.: No, nothing. They will not, they will not give anything. That’s just like when originally, when I spoke to him on the phone, I was supposed to speak to the whole crew, by the time I got there, it was only one person there. There’s no reason for me to speak to anyone else. Once again, I asked a simple question, If you go to work today, I go to work. Then I’m with coworkers, God forbid something happens the first thing your family’s going to say, who was he with? Who was she with? And they went, if nothing’s funny, nothing’s out of line. He is with Joe Blow Mike, Sally, because your family want to ask, but when you say no, you can not speak to them and you get everyone out of the country. Really, really? Because guess what? 10 people can’t tell the same lie and if its all the truth all of us can say the same story if it’s all true, but if we got 10 people and we know something shady online, everybody ain’t gonna tell the same lie. So how do you cover a lie? Getting nine of the ten people out of here, we got one host here to talk, come on man. Up to this day, they won’t give anyone the other people’s information. Come on.

[00:18:37] Dion Mitchell: So you actually have the original report that the original report that came from the 911 operator.

[00:18:42] Terrence Woods Sr.: I have the original 911 call and that’s another thing that took place with the sheriff department when I was out there. So the guy, Simon, the one person that was allegedly that’s the person they stated did not get along with my son and he told me out his own mouth, then when he first met my son, he had high standards of my son, but all of a sudden those standards dropped and he don’t know what was wrong with my son because my son didn’t know what type of fruit to give him when he told him to go get his fruit. My son don’t know you why would he know what kind of fruit to get you, sir?

[00:19:13] Mehul Anjaria: It’s almost like shifting the blame is kind of what that sounds like. Why is it the first thing? Here’s some parents who were upset. Why is it the first thing that you tell them is that you essentially dis their son. It’s crazy.

[00:19:24] Terrence Woods Sr.: Exactly and I spoke to this dude on the phone prior to even going at that morning and this guy is saying all this negative stuff about my son, although my son is the one that’s missing and you were the one that was supposed to be with him and your telling him you were uncomfortable. He disappointed you, you all just told me my son is missing and you tell me about my son disappointed you and did not stand up to your standards, really?

[00:19:49] Dion Mitchell: Do you think he came out of Montana? Do you ever think that he was actually in Idaho? Do you have actually people that you spoke with.

[00:19:54] Terrence Woods Sr.: You have a couple of locals, which I have not actually physically seen or spoke to it’s word of mouth. That said they saw him. They were up on the mountain top when they spoke with them. Well, this place had 200, the population is 200, 206 people. It’s one way in and one way out. They knew who I was when I walked into the gas station, supermarket all that. They knew who I was. Oh, you must be the young man’s father, who disappeared here. So you all know who I am, but nobody know what happened to my son, but moving quick forward and then we can rewind. So when I’m in the sheriff department that morning now they don’t know I have this paperwork. So then speaking, so I said let me why did you all say, my son had a mental breakdown and leaped off a cliff and this dude Simon said, no one ever said that. I said, well, why did you all say my son was dark complexion, no one said that. I said that was said the sheriff looks down and he said, Mr. Woods, I have the 911 report right here in front of me he opens up a yellow manila folder looks down. No, no one said anything like that. I have the 911 report also, right and I read it last night, but I never said nothing to them at that time. I said, man, I got to get out of here, cause I might disappear. He lied to me and looked down at the paper. No one said that no one said anything like that Mr. Woods, where would you get something like that from?

[00:21:21] Dion Mitchell: Definitely sounds like they’re trying to cover something there for the life of me I can’t figure out what it would be.

[00:21:28] Terrence Woods Sr.: I’ll say this. I don’t know even if my son made it to Idaho, but my thing is this, When my son texted well, when I got the text from my son’s phone, I don’t even know if it was him texted, but I got a text when I got the text from his phone and it said ‘dad I’m coming home’ so I’m not knowing that anything was wrong. I’m like, good. Make sure you bring me my shot glasses because everywhere he goes, that’s the only thing I don’t want nothing, but the shot glass goes in the cabinet. So I’m thinking I’m gonna talk to him later on because I get this text, on Friday. So I’m say, well, later on, he’s gonna tell me, why he cut it short? Why are you coming home? I’m thinking I’m going to talk to my son later on now, not knowing that if that was him that sent the text. So could text came from his phone, whatever happened, cause I didn’t verbally speak to him. This is a text coming to me.

[00:22:19] Mehul Anjaria: Yeah. That’s a great point. Terrence and I know much was made of, I think it was on Dr. Phil. They made it seem like a mystery why Terrence left early yet in other media coverage, like a podcast, the claim was that his mother was having medical tests and that’s why he wanted to leave early, but you bring up a great point and it we’ll get to this, but in any good investigation, you look at the cell phone evidence, all that, but we don’t know that those messages are coming from Terrence and so what’s your take on why he would leave the set early?

[00:22:54] Terrence Woods Sr.: Well, he’s never left a set early. That’s first and foremost, okay. First and foremost, he’s never left a set early. Secondly, they were in Montana, they have pictures of it on a Facebook page with all of them in Montana. My son is in none of the pictures. They have pictures of them in Idaho. My son is in none of the pictures. Well, when I had the private investigator, before he started stealing money. He claimed, which I never got that I paid for, that he had the footage from the hotel. Well, you would, if I’m a sheriff, whatever, why don’t they have the footage from the hotel? So show me some pictures of my son walking in a hotel, walking out the hotel. I have not seen any of that yet. No one, you know what I’m saying? So where’s that at? No, I haven’t seen no footage of proof, other than word of mouth. Some couple of locals. that you all could have paid money to say anything. You know what I’m saying? You were in this little, small town, somebody tell you I’m gonna give you 50, $50,000 and that’s more than three, four years of salary to you, You can say anything.

[00:23:58] Dion Mitchell: Yeah. We have those questions, the questions that you have and your statements that you’re making we have those exact same ones. I mean, this stuff screamed at us when we were watching all this in the interviews.

[00:24:06] Terrence Woods Sr.: You know what I’m saying? And they make them like, okay, you had this quote unquote mental breakdown. Okay, you all keep saying he had a mental breakdown. So what doctor professional medical assistant person documented that and said that, so what happened in Montana first? They started this from four days Sunday to Thursday, y’all on the trip on to Idaho. No one say nothing about no funny behavior from Sunday. There’s no one is nothing you won’t pick up any information from Sunday to Thursday. Only thing you hear about is this team on Friday, he had a mental nervous breakdown, et cetera, et cetera, and all hell broke loose and went zero for my son. What? No one is leading up to this. Come on.

[00:24:52] Dion Mitchell: You mentioned the private investigators that you hired. How was it working with them?

[00:24:58] Terrence Woods Sr.: It was terrible, it was terrible, I was shocked, I was vulnerable. Don’t get me wrong. When I met the first guy, he talked real good, sounded real slick, my son missing. So I’m just trying to find somebody to help me find my son. So I gave him my bank account, man, what you need  take this money? Just send me the bill, tell me what you are taking it for. I get a bill, a phone call to London, I gave him a friend of my son’s phone number, he called that person and charged me $600 for a phone call, and I gave you the person name and phone number and I got a $600 London phone call.

[00:25:33] Mehul Anjaria: As far as, Terrence the investigators that you dealt with, the private investigators were, they like licensed people that would appear reputable?

[00:25:42] Terrence Woods Sr.: Well on the internet, the one I found that he was supposedly, he had some good stuff on the internet, and it caught my eye. You know what I’m saying? So, I, at the time I was just trying to find some, I went to several people in this guy’s little biography sound real good. So I’m like, oh yeah, he talked a good game. So, all right, well, what we got to do get started and haven’t seen paperwork is here and we signed this and we’re going to get started. So I’m thinking, okay, man, I’m trying to find my son, you know what I’m saying. I ain’t nothing like this never happened to anyone. I know, so I don’t know who to ask to give me advice to tell me don’t do that don’t do this, man, my son is missing.

[00:26:22] Dion Mitchell: So basically, well, it sounds like you didn’t get a lot from them and they just blew your cash.

[00:26:26] Terrence Woods Sr.: Oh, I mean, I got them money taken from me then I had to close to cut cancel that debit card and then I’ve got the next guy and this guy found out he was working with the damn Sheriff’s department in Idaho. Yeah, so it hadn’t been happening and I thank God that I believe in God, man. Cause that’s the only way to keep you strong, man, because I gotta stay strong. For my youngest son, he won’t even talk about, he don’t, he didn’t want him to talk about his brother and he’s 25 years old. He’s the banker at PNC bank. He owns a wedding planning company, so he’s doing great, but he’s on, he’s staying strong, but he won’t talk about his brother. He don’t even want to talk. So right now it’s just me and him home now, cause both of my sons still live with me.

[00:27:05] Mehul Anjaria: Well, let me ask you this so far, we’ve talked about how you weren’t treated right by the cops. You weren’t treated right by the private investigators. How do you feel that the media has treated you and the story of Terrence’s disappearance?

[00:27:19] Terrence Woods Sr.: I think the media I’m not, I’m not going to get political right now. I’m not a Donald Trump follower. If you are, that’s your business, but, and what’d he say, fake media? Yeah, shit fake media, because I read some stories, man and I’m like, where the hell are these people get this story from? These people never contact me. I don’t know who they spoke to. So people grabbing stuff that Idaho put out this person and then they put in these stories, oh, he disappeared on his own. Oh, he didn’t get along with his family. Did you speak to his family? How you create these stories? I look at these stories, I’m like, well, who did these people speak to and get this information? I never spoke to this person, I had never gave this person permission. You know what I’m saying? So we’re, I put in my son’s name and see all these stories come up missing, missing and I read a little. Wow really what the hell.

[00:28:11] Dion Mitchell: That’s actually one of the reasons why we wanted to speak with you because so many of the, so much of the media that we read and watch, you can see that everything was slanted for a narrative to for clicks and we could not understand why and my next question is, and I think you’ve already answered is do you feel there’s been enough national exposure. I don’t understand after, when I first came in contact with this, why like Hollywood and why everybody, sports athletes, everyone is just not talking about this kids just don’t disappear.

[00:28:45] Terrence Woods Sr.: I’ve tried to get in touch with Tyler Perry. I tried to Jennifer Hudson. He worked with Jennifer Hudson on the Voice. My son worked on the Voice with Jennifer Hudson, Will I Am, Tom Jones, all of that, got pictures with them, all of that. I don’t know, I’m sure all of them, people read their mail and see what they’re going to give them and all this stuff. So, I don’t have no direct line. So I sent stuff to Tyler Perry, Jennifer Hudson Will I Am, President Obama, Mrs. Obama. You know what I’m saying? And it’s like, damn.,

[00:29:19] Dion Mitchell: And no one would touch it.

[00:29:22] Terrence Woods Sr.: No replies from nobody and then the people that do say, oh yeah. Oh man, there’s something wrong with this. We going to get all of it and suddenly they go dead. Like, somebody say, leave it alone. You know what I’m saying? That’s like in London, I spoken to several people in London in the journalism field and they say, man, they would blackball you out here. If you mentioned your son thing, like what.. I ain’t going to talk about that. Is Raw TV, too powerful? They said, man, we trying to get into business. You can’t bring up that story. Well, that alone saying, why would I blackball someone if you’re not doing nothing wrong? What are y’all what big picture y’all trying to cover? Because my thing is this if there was a text from my son and like you said, people were saying, oh, he told him that his mother was having an operation. If he told them this because his mother was not having an operation, then maybe he told him that because he saw something, heard something, he wasn’t comfortable with something and he felt he had to say something that might make them, allow him to get the hell out of it without the eyebrows going up, but my thing is this, If I get a text from you on Friday saying that you coming home and 7:20 AM, Saturday morning, I get a call, saying you leaped off a cliff when no one could find a trace of you, as you heard the Sheriff say on Dr. Phil, your dogs went to the area where they said, quote, unquote, my son went off, couldn’t find a trace and smelled nothing of him helicopters up in the air,  couldn’t find no heat detection of him or he was not there.

[00:31:09] Dion Mitchell: Yeah. I’m wondering that as well.

[00:31:11] Terrence Woods Sr.: Yeah, my son didn’t go over 70 degree angle cliff and like I told you, I said, first of all, my son had $300 inserts in his shoes. He’s flat foot, my son trips, walking up the steps. Now you all want to say in the evening that he dropped his radio in the evening, in the woods, and then he had a car waiting, so this boy never been here in his life, but he had a car to wait on the road and he’s going to run, drop your radio drop, don’t have a flashlight left your book bag with your light in it. In his bag, he had a stun gun in his bag and he had a pocket knife in his bag, he left his bag with a stun gun, pocketknife, everything, the leap down a cliff at night in the dark and you’re going to make it in the dark through the woods that you never been in, get your room and make it to the destination. They said when he was running, we sent one of the vehicles to the road, by the time the vehicle got there, he never crossed it cause he ain’t never go down there, but then they said when they went after him, as he was running like a hare. They came back up, they clothes was ripped and they were bleeding. Well, y’all came back up with ripped clothing and bleeding, but he didn’t lose a drop of blood for a dog to smell a piece of his clothes didn’t get ripped. So he flew down the cliff, get the hell out of here.

[00:32:25] Dion Mitchell: You mentioned Raw TV, obviously, Raw TV is a part of Discovery, which has got pretty long arms in the entertainment industry and I was wondering at the end of the Dr. Phil Show they finished up with, they said Raw TV had reached out to you and offered to meet with you and the Idaho Sheriff’s department. Did that follow up meeting ever occur?

[00:32:44] Terrence Woods Sr.: First of all, Raw TV and this is only hearsay, that’s only what they told us, no one reached out to me. Right? So Raw TV. Why do I have to come back to Idaho for you to meet up with me? We could do a zoom meeting, I don’t want to come back to Idaho. Why do you want to get me back there? So now I can disappear? My son disappeared out there. The sheriff showed me he was up to something shady, when he sat up and looked down and read a piece of paper and told me I was wrong and I got the same paper in my pocket and now you’re going to tell me we can meet up in Idaho. Hell no

[00:33:21] Dion Mitchell: So that meeting never took place that follow up that they threw on it.

[00:33:24] Terrence Woods Sr.: Raw TV haven’t offered me a penny to get a lawyer. They didn’t offer me a private investigator. Didn’t offer no help. Now y’all want to get me back in Idaho. The Idaho Sheriff’s department said, they’re not looking for my son.

[00:33:42] Mehul Anjaria: Well, let me ask you this Terrence.

[00:33:43] Terrence Woods Sr.: I’m listening.

[00:33:44] Mehul Anjaria: What person or organization in your opinion has actually been the biggest help to you as you sought to find some answers?

[00:33:53] Terrence Woods Sr.: No one as of yet. I thought Dr. Phil was going to be a plus, and I followed Dr. Phil show. When you go on these TV shows 99.9% of the time. If you have a drug problem, oh, we are going to put you in counseling marriage problem. We going to get you help with that at the end of that show, they offer you help towards whatever the reason you come on Dr. Phil didn’t offer me nothing. They ain’t saying, well, we can get you a private investigator. We can No!, well, one when you first took the case, the show, it took you over two months to actually air the show. You asked me to do it, then when you finally aired it, it was a put together show. You took what I told you and what my ex-wife said and we said, and then you spoke to the Sheriff Department totally separately and then you put that together. I wasn’t on the show where I could say, hold up, Sheriff, you’re lying about it and about people talking back and forth.

[00:34:57] Mehul Anjaria: Yeah, we were talking about this before we got on and the editing is crazy. It is so chopped up. Yeah.

[00:35:05] Terrence Woods Sr.: Come on, man. Man. Come on, man. Yeah, exactly.  Dr. Phil show, normally Dr. Phil, he come at you. You know what I’m saying? As you know, he come at you, he tap danced on that show, he didn’t eat him up, he tap danced. Then when he asked the Sheriff, so why don’t you give the family, then we’re not doing a follow and we’re not giving them no information. Okay. If you look at Dr. Phil show at the end of any show, they offer a drug addict, counseling, marriage people, counseling. They offer you something to help you at the end of that show, the show was over. Cut. I ain’t never hear from them yet since it was a wrap.

[00:35:52] Mehul Anjaria: Yeah, you’re right. Terrence. That’s the formula. Dr. Phil is supposed to be aggressive and get the answers and not just sit in the chair.

[00:35:58] Terrence Woods Sr.: Resolution, what was the resolution? If you watched it, what resolution you seen there? Like I said, his show revolves around everybody’s asking questions. If you cheat on your wife, your wife’s there, whatever it is then you had us and then you had the sheriff, you did a separate interview with him and whatever you felt made him look good, you put that in and then you made the show together. Sheriff your lying, Sheriff, I know I had a copy. I have a copy of the original report. I couldn’t say that, and so that was his background and everything, but I feel he’s under Oprah Winfrey, and she has a partnership with Discovery.

[00:36:43] Dion Mitchell: There you go. Good point

[00:36:46] Terrence Woods Sr.: Big situation. No.

[00:36:50] Dion Mitchell: You think that she would pick it up?

[00:36:51] Terrence Woods Sr.: Oprah Winfrey have ownership with Discovery, Dr. Phil is under Oprah Winfrey right before all this went out. Oh, well, no, you can’t, you can’t step hard on this one. You told him he was going to do it, you made yourself obligated. Okay, we’ll put it up there, but doctor it up and you don’t fuck with them.

[00:37:09] Dion Mitchell: I want to get into some of the investigation stuff and I was wondering has anybody I probably know the this answer as well, checked his Terrence’s electronic footprint, like his cell, any social media before and after the computer bank records, et cetera, is any of that investigated?

[00:37:25] Terrence Woods Sr.: Now let’s go with that one cell phone. Of course, we don’t have a cell phone. The cell phone quote unquote was with him. Supposedly he couldn’t ping it. Cause the first thing I said, well, why don’t you ping his phone? Well, we’re in the woods and we have Satellite phones cause there’s no service. Well ping his phone to see where the last service was when It took place, nothing happens. You know what I’m saying? Don’t exist. Now as far as this laptop, mind you. When I got there, the Sheriff department had everything. They gave me his laptop. They said you can’t get in, we tried to get into it, but he had a triple firewall in it and if you go into there and you do something, it’s going to burn everything up. We doubt if you can get into it, I brought it home, gave it to somebody and said, man, I don’t know what kind of firewall they have. I say that to say, I don’t know if people did whatever they wanted to do to it and then they put the firewall in there. I don’t know. I know his diary that came back home, I know pages are ripped out of that, that I never received. I know in his camera I have his camera. You would think as soon as I opened up, you can think all the pictures that I would see would be the first pictures of whatever he took while he was in Idaho and Montana. I couldn’t find new pictures until midway flipping through the pictures.

[00:38:51] Dion Mitchell: That’s a great point because I noticed that with your son, he was really big on either video or photographs, diaries, documenting everything he did and there would be a photograph trail.

[00:39:07] Terrence Woods Sr.: Anywhere my son go, he going to take pictures. He gonna make it, he going to take pictures of himself. He is no nothing, not nothing on it with my son, physical body.

[00:39:19] Mehul Anjaria: A quick question on that point. Have you ever considered, or have you ever talked to a computer forensics expert who could go in and trace what some of the deletions and editing and tampering might have.

[00:39:31] Terrence Woods Sr.: I’ve been trying to find such a person. I have people to say, oh, I know this person and get that person and I don’t know, I can’t get there. Oh, I know this person or I can do it. It’s going to cost you $2,500 though. You know what I’m saying? Oh, now you’re putting a price on it. You’re going to go pimp me for money. Huh? I’m a working person. I’ve been working all my life work now to take care of my kids. Both of my kids went to college, we live very comfortable and it’s just the three of us. I never got remarried, no other woman ever lived in my house, their relationship with their mother, It is what it is. You know what I’m saying? That’s their mother, you know what I’m saying? She loved him. They love her, but they always live with me.  Dr. Phil, Terrence was in Montana from Sunday y’all left, arrived in Idaho on Thursday as you, if you seen, when I opened up his suitcase with his clothes, all his clothes are neatly, folded up brand new underwear tags still on socks, still rolled up pants, not worn shirts, but he got one pair of muddy, dirty boots and with all these clean clothes where are his dirty clothes for the last five days?

[00:40:51] Dion Mitchell: A side question. Terrence, did he, and this is just kind of standard they ask about when they do search and rescue, did they just does Terrance aside from, you mentioned the $300 inserts, which I have as well for my flat feet. So I can relate to that any medical issues of, heart lungs, like headaches or anything like that?

[00:41:09] Terrence Woods Sr.: No, I told them they could get his doctor records from his doctor. You know what I’m saying? He has a regular primary doctor at Kaiser Permanente . We have insurance, we have doctors. We go to see the dentist. We go get physicals, get his doc, everybody talking about he had, okay, first now you’re saying the young man had a mental breakdown. Now you’re trying to say. yeah, I’ve found pills, that’s called hearsay. Show me evidence that you went to his primary doctor where his physicals are his lab work is then just go to, if you got work from, give me some of that and you show me one, one physical, one thing from any of his doctors that said he was coming in for anything. Show me some proof from a professional person not of created word of mouth trying to down talk to the person, or make this person look like the enemy, so people say, oh, he had mental problems, all the hell with him. That’s just, I guess the Sheriff said, oh, he from the city? We don’t even live in the city. My son was never even brought up in the city. You know what I’m saying? So well, because he’s black. He’s from the city?

[00:42:25] Mehul Anjaria: Yeah that’s kind of the inference. You might draw by what he said and it’s funny when you said that 911 caller said Terrence had a dark complexion. Well, compared to everybody else in Idaho. Yeah.

[00:42:36] Terrence Woods Sr.: But even from some of the people, not who he looked like, some of them.

[00:42:41] Mehul Anjaria: Well, let me go back to Raw TV real quick and I think I know the answer to this question, but again, another claim on Dr. Phil by the Sheriff, I believe. He said that you had the names of every one of the crew numbers members. Now, is that true or is Simon the only name that you have?

[00:43:00] Terrence Woods Sr.: Simon is the only name that they would give me, Simon is the only person I met and only name they would give. Raw TV would not, they said there was no criminal investigation and there was no need to give anyone else’s name not up to this day, even when Fox Five, that’s another joke of a newscast story they did a six-part podcast on my son, terrible, because it was totally one sided, everything that Melanie did was what the sheriff department said, what the sheriff department said. There is nothing in a six-part podcast that this lady did on my son where she had people that he knows people that he went to school with family members, the thing is what they said. Wow. Then the last one was, my son was with the lady that owned the RV company and told her, he don’t get along with his father, him and his brother fight. He don’t love his mother.

[00:44:02] Dion Mitchell: And none of that’s true?

[00:44:04] Terrence Woods Sr.: Hell no. Like I said, my son lived with me, his bedroom, very comfortable.

[00:44:12] Dion Mitchell: You mentioned, you mentioned a couple of pieces of evidence and stuff and I was just wondering, what do you think what’s the one most important piece of evidence or piece of the puzzle that you don’t have that might kind of blow this open or reignite it?

[00:44:25] Terrence Woods Sr.: One, if we could get in that computer to see, like you said, what was all deleted? And two, like I said, in his camera, if right now you take a bunch of pictures. So now get your camera, the pictures that you. Should not be, it shouldn’t be 200 pictures in front of them, 50 pictures in front of them. That means somebody went through them and you know what I’m saying? Scattered them around or whatever. Someone went through that.

[00:44:53] Dion Mitchell: Well, that’s it easy to figure out. So, I’m assuming since Terrence was a pro he’s probably using a pretty nice 35 millimeter camera, correct?

[00:45:01] Terrence Woods Sr.: Yes.

[00:45:02] Dion Mitchell: Okay. So that means that you can download all the pictures off the camera, via USB into a computer, and then you should be able to see each picture is timestamped. There’s no way around that and then it also should be in synchronicity. So it should be like depending how many photos is taken. It would be, 1000, 1001, 1002, 1003 and then you can look at the timestamps. So that’s fairly easy and that’s something that you can actually do right now and that’s just hook that 35 up to a PC.

[00:45:30] Terrence Woods Sr.: Okay. Well, I was I looked at, I was looking at him, through the little scan on them and I could see dates and stuff on them.

[00:45:39] Dion Mitchell: So right there. Yeah, exactly. So right there that would tell you because you get it

[00:45:43] Terrence Woods Sr.: Right. So that’s my point.

[00:45:46] Dion Mitchell: Terrence was really good he was taking all these pictures. So if there was a gap, of more than 24 hours, that would be odd.

[00:45:57] Terrence Woods Sr.: Exactly. That’s my point. Okay. So that’s my point. So I’m looking at pictures, but I’m looking at pictures. Okay. Like I said, he was just in Idaho. So those should be the first pictures then to be Montana pictures, those pictures are from when he was in Rome, I had the wrong pictures show up before the Idaho pictures.

[00:46:18] Dion Mitchell: Yeah, that’s not right.

[00:46:19] Terrence Woods Sr.: Come on.

[00:46:19] Dion Mitchell: You mentioned Terrance’s suitcase. When did you come in contact with it? And then how long did it take you to actually open it up?

[00:46:26] Terrence Woods Sr.: They gave it to me the day after I got there.

[00:46:31] Dion Mitchell: And you opened it up right away.

[00:46:32] Terrence Woods Sr.: No I looked in his backpack, his suitcase, I didn’t wanna open it up for months and then I finally opened it up and that’s when I seen everything easily folded up. That’s like they said it was 30, it was 32 degrees the night they did the shoot.

[00:46:52] Dion Mitchell: Was there snow, is there snow on the ground up there?

[00:46:56] Terrence Woods Sr.: Yes.

[00:46:56] Dion Mitchell: Was there a lot or little?

[00:46:58] Terrence Woods Sr.: In the mountains, It was, that’s why they had to stop because of the weather. So mind you, it’s 32 degrees. He runs down this hill well, what did he have? Oh, he had on, we believe a light jacket and some pants, one light jacket. Well, 32 degrees. The snow suit that I bought him before he left that’s at home with me. He didn’t have his snow suit on his secondary coat. Heavy coat I brought home with me. So he’s out, out in the woods. Y’all all got on winter coats, everything, but he’s out there with a little jacket on it. Snow coat, snow pants he doesn’t wear none of that. His boots, he didn’t have boots. He got muddy pair of shoes where these shoes are muddy, I mean, I don’t know if you’ve seen the Dr. Phil show, you’ll see the shoes. So why would he be out in that type of, and I know he took, he wouldn’t, he loves Doc Martens. So I know he had Doc Martens, I guess he might’ve had those on that day. Cause they didn’t come back, sneakers still in his bag. Like I said, no dirty clothes, no dirty underwear, no dirty t-shirts, no dirty socks. If those boots, those shoes is in there muddy, there should be some muddy pants around, should be some pants around with bottom of the pants would be muddy too, but nothing else is dirty.

[00:48:18] Dion Mitchell: Yeah. I got hung up on that pretty early as to where where were the clothes? I’ve just no, full disclosure here, I’ve worked in production for a really long time, 20 years on a set and when you get done at the end of the day, you’re not putting those clothes back on, there’s a pile of dirty clothes and you move on. So clearly he’s worked on enough sets that he knows that you pack accordingly because basically you wear something it’s done until you bring it home and you wash it. So where do you think that his dirty clothes went?

[00:48:48] Terrence Woods Sr.: Who’s to say how many days he really was there, who’s to say his dirty clothes wasn’t a part of some type of evidence and y’all got rid of them, not you all meaning you, but they got rid of them, come on, man.

[00:48:59] Mehul Anjaria: Well, then that leads into my next question. Obviously that hotel room is a very important piece of evidence and now did you say that the private investigator, the only thing he or she did was give you a photograph of the hallway of the hotel?

[00:49:13] Terrence Woods Sr.: No, I said they didn’t give me anything. They told me they have it. I have no evidence.

[00:49:18] Mehul Anjaria: That’s right. You haven’t seen it.

[00:49:19] Terrence Woods Sr.: Oh, No one will, let me see anything and remember this, I don’t know if you heard in the interview where they said the crew quote, unquote, went back to his room and went into his room and then they taped his room off and locked his room, so no one else could get in it. So the crew went back in the room before the Sheriff’s department or anyone even got there.

[00:49:40] Mehul Anjaria: You now have multiple instances where people, if they wanted to, could have tampered with evidence.

[00:49:46] Terrence Woods Sr.: Could have done anything, man. Yeah. That’s my point.

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